Everyone is trying to influence everyone else. The question is simply what degree and magnitude you are willing to accept.
1) Explosives and biological agents. Likely detected by sniffers.
2) Radiological materials.
3) Heavy packages or letters may be opened and inspected, especially for customs purposes. Depends on the postal service.
4) Potentially xray may be applied.
None of this is really an obstacle to communication. By the way, phone service is not censored or modified in most countries either. Including cellphones.
they wanted to tap the comms.
same with the telegraph.
and every other means of comms.
- e-mail (effectively a federated system, before it was cool)
- a social network instance like Diaspora
- Matrix (matrix.org - "An open network for secure, decentralized communication.")
- XMPP / Jabber
- IRC (not federated, but self-hostable)
I've been on Mastodon for the last 3-4 months and it's been awesome so far. It's basically Twitter without all the drama and toxicity. Also, while I don't run my own instance, I've seen many people running one.
Running an ISP costs money just as any other critical infrastructure service is. If you get all the way down to the OSI layer 1 of it, it costs a lot of money. There's major construction projects involved. Go do the budgetary figures on what it would cost to acquire the right-of-way and run a new 864 count ribbon cable of dark fiber from Hillsboro, OR to Boise, ID, for example.
An ISP that doesn't fuck with its customers' traffic is simply a pipe to run your own choice of communications protocols on top of. The job of the ISP is to manage infrastructure at OSI layers 1-3, the 4-7 are your problem.
You and I can establish a TLS connection between us through our respective ISPs, and the ISPs have no clue what we are talking over that connection, nor can they change it. The worst thing they can do is to drop the packets.
I bought a nice sounding domain name, got an SSL certificate from Let's Encrypt, and was good to go! My mental health has been increasing since then (no joke).
I'm fortunate enough to have admin rights over the infrastructure of a small to medium sized regional player, where the senior management are principled individuals who would not even contemplate doing bullshit like hijacking http or DNS traffic.
Obviously this would probably never get the global reach of a no-fee Facebook, but I would use something like this in a second, many of my friends would too, and I sometimes daydream about what I would need to do to get it off the ground.
The intention was to provide hosting for web pages relating to university societies, with good facilities for transfer of ownership (since there was annual turnover of the society administrators). Nowadays this role would be filled by Facebook pages, but the SRCF is still there and still useful.
I believe if you want to get the co-op model off the ground you have to start with a particular user community that you're a member of. Then you can start scaling it to other communities. But crucially this process must be lead by thinking of the user community and their needs, not the technology - the technology is secondary and you can always tape together a solution somehow.
(We "nearly" came up with Facebook, called people.ucam.org, but we weren't even the only people in the university looking at the question of "how to stay in touch with your friends after graduating"; it was a common problem of the time)
Another example of a community-driven content hosting site / social network is "Archive of our own": AO3, for fanfic (often NSFW)
I don't know what the root of that evil is, but there are undoubtedly multiple factors involved. First of all, most people have WhatsApp already.
Secondly, it is effortless to use. With federated systems, you always have to choose a provider. Once you have overcome that hurdle, the privacy-sensitive people like us do not want to share their address book with the server so finding your people is a manual setup for everyone (another hurdle).
Last but not least, the client landscape of XMPP is still far from perfect. If you want to use end-to-end encryption (e.g., OMEMO) there are finally some clients which work with each other (Android: Conversations, iOS: ChatSecure, Desktop: Gajim), but configuring all that stuff (Server + Clients), is not as easy as pushing a button. Other features like video calls are still very fragmented and rarely work if different clients are involved.
I think it would take ten dedicated developers about a year to fix all those problems (if they would agree on common goals and focus on those) and even after that, we would still have to sell the product.
What the big platforms have done is eliminate friction at all the critical parts, to make it easy for users to onboard, easy to share, easy to grow within the platform, and of course hard to leave.
I've been thinking about a low cost but not free platform too. If it ever happens, it will have to be AT LEAST as frictionless and enticing as the existing platforms. The table stakes are very high. Since cost in of itself is a source of friction, that means the rest of the platform needs to be even MORE frictionless.
That said, the fact is that the mainstream alternatives are handicapped by their own success and are afraid to change anything of their core features. Starting a new platform would be an opportunity to revisit many of the original design choices, and perhaps one could do surprising new things at that point.
I think the co-operative model is interesting economically as well because as far as I can tell, there are at least some cases where it does work out to be economically stable on a reasonably long term basis (decades anyway), and I presume it changes things a lot, organizationally, if the main goal isn't just "lowest common denominator software for the sake of maximal mass adoption and growth."
Facebook and Instagram had no trouble stealing the concept of 'stories' from Snapchat and Facebook also copied their augmented face masks.
Did WhatsApp use a lot of open source stuff under the covers that we could leverage in building our own secure person to person/ group chat platform?
A disrupter would have to have even less friction but would be competing against a product that already has a significant network effect and a very generous backing by Facebook. I'm speculating that FB will eventually nudge WhatsApp users to Messenger, or find a way to gradually merge the services to the point where they are identical, especially w.r.t. advertisement.
In that respect, it was brilliant of FB to acquire WhatsApp: not just for the users, but to make it hard for any newcommer to disrupt things (hard to compete againsts free and frictionless).
There are many (open-source) solutions for building your own secure messaging system, XMPP and others.
I'm happily running (I should also disclose: developing) my own server and talking with friends and family who use e.g. Conversations as an alternative to WhatsApp.
The only friction to the end-user is the same email/password request every other service makes, but you want to use CL because it's the de facto place for listing your apartment or whatever.
The table stakes are another reason why this endeavour won't happen as a small effort.
I think it would be better to build something that was sufficiently compelling and had enough new features/UX that people would want to use it all on its own, as something better than the existing ad-supported options, and then we would enable federated options as an alternative form of access. But I think the primary UX has to be "log in to web app" or "install mobile clients," not "fiddle with XMPP settings" (because that is too fiddly, like you're saying, and you have to meet people where they are).
This being said — it's excellent that you run your own server and managed to get some of your social network to actually use it!
I also run XMPP server for friends and family and actually all of them are very happy with it. With Conversations this entire experience looks like any other modern messenger.
Network effects are of course a problem in any decentralized environments but looking at how quickly companies drop their solutions (Google?) or abuse the data you give them (Facebook?) I don't see any other reasonable option. Today Signal is nice and kind, tomorrow they are bought by Facebook and start "fiddling" with the app...
Does Conversations do something extra to support sending messages to people who are offline? If so, how well does it work? Because that's what I find to be the biggest gripe people have (myself included) with XMPP.
Conversations can display a "tick" on the sender's side so you know that a message has been delivered to the user (not just stored on a server).
I guess it works well as I've never heard about a lost message.
You can check the server with compliance tester: https://compliance.conversations.im
Well, then it will never happen :D
The server doesn't really have to support end-to-end encryption as that is part of the clients (in fact, there are some server-side extensions which have to be present, but those are mostly enabled by default).
Afaik, the default ejabberd configuration is very close to what you need, and there is just one part that you have to remove to enable OMEMO . I don't understand why but recently the ejabberd devs introduced that part to their default configuration which makes it harder to use end-to-end encryption.
Nevertheless, if you are very interested in a detailed guide, I could write one as I am thinking about setting up a secondary server as a testing environment.
EDIT: Moreover, trust is not binary. So while your family might trust you, maybe your dad doesn't want you to be able to read everything he writes your mom or so (you get the idea).
I would like it if my local government funded an alternative to Nextdoor, for instance.
I agree that the issue arises for current systems that allow broadcast (one-to-all) communications such as this forum. I also acknowledge that it exists for email (one-to-one), but I think only because in that case it's so cheap and easy to mass mail something that one-to-one has effectively been automated into one-to-almost-all. I'd also note that modern spam filters are quite good at their job.
But for example, SMS isn't meaningfully moderated in any way yet when was the last time you had cause to blacklist a number?
I don't see any reason why a newly designed system couldn't apply different techniques to (mostly) avoid the problem. Just off the top of my head there's personal whitelists and blacklists, federated systems (pick the centralized ruleset that works for you), community moderation (ex StackExchange), web of trust, the subscription blacklist model that adblockers use...
There is no way for me to stop the US postal office from delivering me giant catalogues of advertisements multiple times a week. I regularly get mail addressed to "current resident." I ought to be able to go to the postal office and say, "If someone doesn't know my name, just don't deliver the letter." It's friendlier for the environment, it would make the experience of checking my mail more pleasant.
The reason I can't do that is because spam is a giant source of revenue for the US Postal service. Coincidentally, the US Postal service has a number of services specifically designed to make it easier for advertisers to get mail into my mailbox. There is, in my mind, no reason to believe that a nationally owned social media platform would have any different incentives than Facebook would.
Email, a federated service that doesn't really make the government any money, doesn't have those incentives. So open protocols that are unaffiliated with any single organization (government or company) work better in my experience, unless whatever service is created is isolated from making profits in traditional ways. There are some good examples of that, but I'm not completely sure the Post Office is one of them.
The good thing is that it relies on XMPP for all the communication, therefore all the instances are still connected to each others allowing communication between all the users of the network and with all the existing XMPP applications.
It offers social features (publications, blog, comments), chat (chatrooms, stickers...) and video-conferencing.
P.S. I'm one of the contributor of the project.
I think facebook has each user valued at about $200USD/year. A 2016 article from the Guardian puts it at $60/year... so I'm not sure which number to believe.
In my dreams, if the price point were low enough, like "the cost of two coffees per year" or something, and it wasn't irritating to pay it, there are plenty of people who want out of FB and could afford that.
When I started using privacy.com, I found it a lot easier to fund stuff because it was frictionless to generate a CC and drop it into a payment form automatically.
North American and European users are worth a lot more than users in developing countries.
No fees, no development needed, lightweight and has been working for decades:
Everything else is just candy.
> you all pay some nominal membership fee (could you fund servers and developers on $5/year/user?)
People individually run "pubs", which are servers (with hosting costs), but every user also acts as a potential server, caching and proxying encrypted communications on behalf of other users, which acts as a sort of "cost", though it's not directly monetary.
> software would then be developed to fit the agreed-upon needs of the community, without dark patterns or behavior modification projects, openly, and with some kind of community governance
Apart from the central protocol, niche needs are met by various clients—e.g. there is a dedicated chess client for users who just want to play chess over the social network.
> need not be exclusive of technical leadership
While the SSBC is in no way dictatorial and even often jokey, I think their clients demonstrate exceptional technical leadership. The strategy of having a protocol with many clients usually leads to having many disparate clients of low quality. On the contrary, most users use Patchwork, the main stable SSBC-maintained client; it's the most "Facebook-ish" of the clients and is very intuitive.
A co-op social network sounds an interesting idea. Doubly so if it gave only the sort of features early Facebook had - i.e. the ones useful to the users, before it became about the algorithm, engagement and so on. Wouldn't be surprised if there's something along those lines on github.
It would be really nice to have some choices that actively reject the "users are data cattle" model, even if it goes back to the BBS world of lots of little, barely connected, islands.
And as with all the forms of surveillance, kids are escaping it.
I'm in SE Asia right now, in a country where Facebook Zero makes it available to everyone regardless of income, and guess what? Not only does everybody have a Facebook account, many women have at least three: one for friends, one for family, and one that is anonymous to hide their activity from their friends and family.
I know it's against Facebook's TOS, but it's so easy to create a pseudonymous username. So it's the same for American teenage kids: they just create a new account with a fake name. If they are abandoning Facebook it's because they like Instagram or Snapchat more, not because their parents are on Facebook.
In there, you can have some communities that run co-op and some that are free to use. It also makes the ecosystem more open compared to centrally managed software, even if it's transparent and without dark patterns.
(Plus, how do you police it if you're talking about a company that is well versed in the art of 'taking it over the line by 1 inch per year')
But you have to actually have the communities before you can do the federation (this is also how it works in the offline world — it's not like people design interoperability protocols and THEN found villages).
It's more like: we could build nicer, community-funded, sanely run social software, and alongside them we could support XMPP type features for hackers who are able to use them, or to interoperate with other alternative online communities that may be emerging.
I think, specifically, of the lesswrong site and the collection of tools and user-created content that are collected under a single site there.
If you have a thousand unconnected small networks, you're going to be unable to compete with worldwide networks.
Of course, for some communities the value is that all your friends aren't there, but in general even if I was willing to pay for that service (and it would probably have to be 5 usd/month, not per year due to scale) most of the people I know wouldn't be willing to pay that and so the idea is DOA.
It is however quite possible that model would work for other types of software -- after all that model was exactly what Danish farmers used to fund the companies that could process their milk.
So, effectively it is more work per user to manage smaller groups than larger ones -- which is fine, if you find people who want to do this task. Another approach might be a community driven model -- where detractors could be ostracized. For very small groups this might work out well, but as the group gets larger, the potential for misuse rises also.
Lanier certainly has the chops, the background and the deliverables to be taken seriously.
I think those guys are super important as a counterweight to the fawning and gushing (in general) tech press and I for one wish that they have far more reach, impact and influence.
Some tasks of our life can be taken over by software, but others should stay with us.
Especially with the advent of AI, engineers are racing to automate everything: from suggesting us new friends, new music, with which dresses we look smart, and so on. Automating everything will cause the atrophying of our skills and we will become a bunch of lonely depressed, smartly dressed users with thousands of virtual friends and perfect music playlists that never deviate from our preferred music.
Automation is fine and dandy, but not for everything.
The idea that we're all being duped and manipulated into using something we don't need so that we'll view ads is overblown. It's not false, it's just not a new thing and it's not a problem.
Media has been intertwined with market research, ratings, feedback, and advertising since before the electronic age. Advertising platforms have been getting incrementally better at learning what people want, how to push their psychological buttons, and how to retain customers.
There's a tendency to treat social media users as helpless victims of an evil empire who don't realize their personal details are being used to target them for exploitation. People aren't that stupid. They know what they're trading for these great free products we all use.
> People aren't that stupid. They know what they're trading for these great free products we all use.
Maybe for most HN readers, but I don't think that is the case for most users.
I would say the average user has no idea what exactly they are trading for.
Also: we don't need software for most things in life. But we like software, as it usually makes things better.
Searched for it on ddg and here is what the excerpt from Wikipedia says: "App.net was an ad-free online social networking service and microblogging service which enabled its users to write messages of up to 256 characters."
Turns out that they did a lot of stuff later that I would have liked but by then I was probably using WhatsApp.
My thought is that something new would need to not replicate the UX of existing social software, but would need to think of better alternatives. Competing with existing giants on their own terms, but with a different business model, is a hard sell, probably too hard.
so if getting more users means getting more money, then the focus could be just on making the best service possible instead of focusing on ads and tracking to keep things running
But in foundations and donation-based nonprofits, what you see is that they become organizationally focused on chasing donations, they have more and more irritating "please donate to us" fundraising staff, they may have to bend their mission towards whatever can please the local philanthropists, and they sometimes end up seeming more worried about organizational survival (via procuring money) than with whatever their mission is supposed to be. Another way of putting this is that it seems pretty hard to make voluntary donations provide stability, and organizations like stability.
I'm open to having my mind changed about this, but it seems to me that it creates some major new organizational failure modes when you decouple the mission from the source of revenue.
The plain truth of it is that most people want their internet fix for free, and are prepared to expose all manner of personal information in order for it to STAY free. The moment Facebook actually starts charging for features, people will start to jump ship en-mass to the next free social platform.
 Us lot on HN are not 'most people'.
I live where HN has absolutely no audience, think middle of nowhere midwest. And I can 100% say that not one person I talk to has any idea what data is available about them, for sale, right now. They don't even understand why it's important to know what permissions your apps on your phone ask for.
I think if tech folks made an effort to get people to understand, in language they can access, what data is out there, we would see a massive (attempt at a) shift in how people use the internet
Edit: Proof of what I say, that i just remembered. My father is extremely right wing, pro-Trump. He was told, by whatever 'news' agency he happens to listen to on AM radio (Maybe Laura Ingram?) that Facebook was doing awful things and they explained, in the most basic terms, what kind of data Facebook may have on you. So father dear deleted his Facebook account.
And opened an Instagram.
2) it would make abuse much harder: registering 1M fake users becomes costly, and the payment leaves a track to a real credit card.
I've been asking admins to delete an old account that has identifiable information (which I posted while I was a minor) and which is embarrassing.
They did not care and the info is still public.
So much for the right to be forgotten...
I do notice the most engaged communities are the ones that feel they are part of improving the product. The developers are responsive and there is good flow. Everyone feels good, except, they're basically the product managers for a sub par product and they will not be rewarded for their time.
They silently suffer, develop coping mechanisms and time-intensive workarounds. Most don't even understand how things could be better. This is part of the reason so many interfaces are horrible. This isn't even specific to social media platforms. People adapt to crap. Sounds like this is what Jaron is talking about.
Design thinking should be taught in schools or as Gen Ed in colleges.
When I worked on user-facing apps my silent motto was "reduce user suffering". Of course, this isn't the kind of thing your employer usually wants to hear.
And these are not trivial adaptations.
I'm 49. I got my first computer at 10. I've been dealing with family, friends, coworkers, and church congregants ever since about how to use computers and software and web sites. What I've just come to realize is how much effort normal users put into getting their stuff to work, because, when it finally comes time for them to ask for help, they are resistant to changing anything about their behavior. That tells me that they have SIGNIFICANT investment into getting to the place they already are.
Perfect, ready example: It's telling that my wife and kids struggle to find files they've saved on a MacBook, which should be the KING of usability. I mean, this is a problem we should have solved 20 years ago, right? Yet, any time I suggest ways to search or sort in Spotlight or Finder, I get pushback about not having time to learn how to do it better.
I think about all the stupid crap I put up with from computers and web sites on a daily basis -- as a full-time programmer/sysadmin/devop -- and I despair. I just had to register an account to download Docker to my work computer. And wait for the confirmation email. And fish it out of my spam folder. And fish the saved password out of Firefox's password manager, which had saved it under a different domain. You and I, as people who read this site, deal with this crap all. day. long. I'm totally with Jaron: How do normal people deal with this world WE have created?
There is a whole track on design at Coursera, but I only watched one course from it, so can't say anything about its quality.
It seems the term "design thinking" has been hijacked by consultants. What I mean by it: being aware of how tools/artifacts drives people's actions/behaviors and changing the former to proactively make people's lives better. Sounds simple, but in practice today's world is obsessed with needs, wants and features, not the actual process of living with technology and other human artifacts.
One resource I recommend is IDEO.org...it's tailored more towards humanitarian type Design Thinking, but it might be a good place to look depending, of course, on your needs ;)
BTW, Speaking of RMS and Jaron, is there some requirement that you have to have an iconic hair style to be a revered tech commentator?
I won't quote the long list of arguments, just a tangential remark:
"It’s also interesting to think about what would happen if we applied “Rapture of the Nerds” reasoning more widely. Can we ignore nuclear warfare because it’s the Armageddon of the Nerds? Can we ignore climate change because it’s the Tribulation of the Nerds? Can we ignore modern medicine because it’s the Jesus healing miracle of the Nerds? It’s been very common throughout history for technology to give us capabilities that were once dreamt of only in wishful religious ideologies: consider flight or artificial limbs. Why couldn’t it happen for increased intelligence and all the many things that would flow from it?"
I believe the phrase is used to critique the singularity for the way it is used to hand-wave away a huge set of problems. It's pointing out that, even if you believe in the singularity, its time horizons are uncertain at best. Bringing it up as a response to problems that exist in there here and now is textbook "apocalyptic thinking" and should be called out.
I think you read the article correctly, and that this is precisely the critique being made. The way I seen it used is, "this quacks like religion, so it is religion, therefore it's all bullshit".
The arguments about the nature of Singularity and possible time frames are made from applying logical reasoning to extrapolate from observable facts. The reasoning can, and absolutely should be criticized on the object level. But just dismissing it because it sounds sorta, kinda similar to some religion shouldn't be considered valid criticism. It's a thought-terminating cliché.
> I believe the phrase is used to critique the singularity for the way it is used to hand-wave away a huge set of problems.
Such uses of the concept should definitely be shot down. But it's not something I see popping up frequently among people discussing the concept seriously.
I don't know how many in the audience would know the reference, but the fact that he worked directly with Minsky made it a pretty lopsided debate, in terms of credentials.
Anyways, for a rip roaring good time I highly recommend this debate on artificial intelligence featuring Jaron (https://youtu.be/Qqc0t8ghvis). On the opppsing side is Martine Rothblatt (male turned female, inventor of satellite radio, found a cure for the previously incurable disease her daughter had!). The panelists are definitely capable of producing novel ideas.
I view Jaron as going by his feelings more than anything. Like I doubt he has some statistical evidence for any of his claims. But I can't help but agree with him on this.
Also - should hardly need pointing out, but philosophy has never had a project to 'predict the future'. That's futurology, which I agree is largely hooey.
I do like the cut of his jib. Like I said he has a few novel ideas which are always worth listening to.
He wrote Digital Maoism article at the peak of Web 2.0 hype. That's pretty darn good demonstration of foresight.
From a street hobo, that gets you instantly dismissed, but there's a counter-intuitive aspect where if you're a Jaron Lanier, it just further underscores that you're Jaron Lanier and can do as you like. Because he is not trying to maximize trust in any way, he comes off as plausible even when expressing stuff that's unusual.
For instance, his reaction to 'how do you define a BUMMER platform?'. He essentially said, "I know Russian Intelligence made special effort to control this, this and this platforms, so define it as those!"
I'd not heard about the specific agencies he cited, but I've personally seen all sorts of sketchiness going down in every platform he listed, and it clicked. I stuck 'em all in a folder with each other, and they do seem to belong together.
I can think of people who're purportedly much more trustworthy, that I would not accept their statements on things like that without investigation. But I've heard from Jaron before and he's always (a) speaking out about something with NO concern for how his statements will come across, and (b) citing stuff that he's deeply familiar with. There are times I've looked into his details and found them interesting and all he said they were, so it only underscores the impression of him as the Cassandra truth-teller, privy to important things that are typically overlooked.
Maybe he consciously adopts that manner for that very purpose. In marketing it's always best if you can brand yourself using the core truths of yourself: then you can't get it wrong, or slip up and reveal inconsistency. He may take pains to seem the raving prophet.
Up until some time in the mid 90's people were thinking of the internet as something intrinsically decentralized. The idea was that we, as individuals, would participate in new forms of discourse and creation through the "media" of hypertext _without_ intermediaries other than (perhaps) agents we would create for ourselves on an individual basis (like your own personal "max headroom").
Instead what we got are giant "media" companies acting as middle-men, cattle-herders or disinterested extractive entities that are pursing goals totally unrelated to the actual services they provide to the people who use "their media".
Why do we need colossal-scale datacenters for social media anyway? Could there be a totally decentralized solution consisting of just the people and their devices? Or is that just a pipe-dream or sitcom plot like "Pied-piper" on the Silicon Valley TV show?
This exists, and is ubiquitous, and has succeeded beyond everyones wildest expectations.
You may, for free (or almost free), control a public, routable IP address and run any kind of publishing platform or online community on it that you choose to - from a listserv to a full blown Drupal CMS.
You have exactly what you have always wished for. It turns out, however, that all the people that used to just watch TV ... still just want to "watch TV" (whatever that means these days ...)
Ted Nelson actively sabotaged attempt to create open source implementation. He initially seemed to approve it, but turned against it. Nelson has patented zzstructure, so there is little you can do until the patent expires (I think it will expire very soon)
I don't think there's much use now (40-ish years later) to attempt actual implementations of Ted Nelson's stuff according to his specifications. So much has changed. Perhaps it would be an interesting curiosity?
It is sad, however, to think about how we imagined cyberspace as a dual plane of existence, how it was going to be a liberating and life-changing experience that makes people better versions of themselves. Only some of that came to be and, increasingly, in cyberspace we're just "product" being handled disinterested "social media" monoliths.
According to Jaron Lanier, Xanadu (Ted Nelson's concept) was all about "two-way" connectivity, not in a trivial sense like client/server websites today but deeply as in a "we're all authors" sense.
> "A core technical difference between a Nelsonian network > and what we have become familiar with online is that [Nelson's] > network links were two-way instead of one-way. In a network > with two-way links, each node knows what other nodes are > linked to it. ... Two-way linking would preserve context. > It's a small simple change in how online information should > be stored that couldn't have vaster implications for > culture and the economy."
The Xanadu idea was that if a link was created from A → B, it would be visible in B as well. They have some cute 3D renderings of XanaduSpace on their website that makes it clearer: http://xanadu.com/XanaduSpace/btf.htm
Lanier further claims this would make Google redundant (since you'd "just see where most of the links led" - it's not clear to me how you'd do that without processing (ie, scraping with a bot) all the documents and their links), and also Facebook because, apparently, what we were missing is a way to see who is linking to our content, so we can "meet people who share out interests" (personally, this is what I see forums or Reddit being used for, whereas Facebook was primarily about people you knew personally).
Because they're not the same HN users? I don't care at all about data collection but I abhor terrible UI such the modal ad in the original post.
This; people keep confusing conflicting vocal minorities with a minority with shared but incoherent preferences.
Otherwise, you're forcing a population that's trying to survive with less and less capital, to choose what information sources they'll agree to keep open. Network effects come into play, and you end up with a system where only the top information sources can survive and there just isn't the public support for anything else.
Ditch capitalism and treat money like something provided to people as a citizenship right (like a vote, or like UBI) and then maybe you can have paywalls and have enough superfluous capital that you'll have a functioning market that allows for challengers and alternate choices to persist.
Right now, both paywalls and data collection are pushing things towards centralized solutions due to network effects (when you can search for the 'one best' thing worldwide, people generally will wish to do that) and the results of that are proving catastrophic. Capitalism merely underscores this mechanism and makes it seem mandatory that you will pay to serve the centralized systems that control you.
Jaron's looking for more of a decentralized thing. If you asked him whether he supported a paywall for the 'BUMMER' stuff he talks about, he would hope that the paywall would bring down those systems, and he'd be afraid that the lock-in would be so great that it wouldn't matter.
I have no idea what you are rambling about. The dark pattern demonstrated behind the article link is modal newsletter subscription boxes in front of the content, i.e. distracting, disrupting the user's reading to show him something he didn't click the link for. It's annoying, it wastes time and energy and it makes the web unattractive like dumb clickbait headlines when following a descriptive link doesn't lead to the promised content (without extra effort).
Is deleting a social media account such a brave move that people have to really ponder it, read a book, maybe talk with close family and friends before making a decision?
The 1st Facebook account removal I saw was something sudden: this girl had a really bad experience and the next day all her stuff was gone.
Don't worry, they'll tell you.
I didn't know this, can someone give more information on exactly how/why this happened?
Not sure what the author is talking about.
Just because the SEC allows a metric to be used doesn't mean investors are going to use it, and most definitely are not forced to use it in how they calculate the value of the shares they are purchasing. The fact that Facebook has amazing profit margins, ability to scale, and great revenue numbers also undermines the author's point.
Pedal steel involves doing a lot of things simultaneously. Chords are assembled from strings and slide, but there are pedals and knee levers that change the pitch of individual strings up or down. So you can do something like play a DGB triad (G major chord), and press a pedal to turn it into EGC (C major chord), while the strings are still ringing. No other instrument can do this. It can be sort of faked by bending a note against another note on guitar, but it's pitifully shallow next to pedal steel. But the pedals and levers, plus the slide, plus right hand picking, plus a volume pedal to control attack and sustain... wow. It's so complex.
I warmly recommend Jaron Lanier’s album of classical music, Instruments of Change: https://open.spotify.com/album/2E4m0Uy7w5873OUGVowJfu
> Another example is LinkedIn, which has some addictive techniques but doesn’t seem to bring out the worst in people. So, you know, I don’t think this is exactly a universal criticism of the whole idea of social media — in fact, I’m sure it isn’t. I’m sure there could be better social media. Basically, if Putin was there, maybe you shouldn’t go there. Maybe that’s a good rule of thumb. Basically, don’t sleep in the bed where anybody who works for Putin has been lately. I think it’s a very good rule for us all to follow.
It never ceases to surprise me how any mention of the Russian spooks in the context of social media inevitably comes to the same conclusion: you cannot co-exist with them. Either you fight them (which is the mainstream position) by demanding that social networks ban them, or you leave the social network.
Weirdly, there doesn't seem to be any middle ground. I do not hear of any messages directed at users about developing some sort of online personal hygiene. Maybe take any ads with a grain of salt? Maybe do not trust total strangers until you get to know their online personality (if you are interested in their opinion at all)? Maybe limit your social circles? Maybe exercise more self-control in online debates? There are probably numerous other suggestions of how to be a more intelligent consumer of media content. And then Putin won't be such a comical bogeyman of online media he has lately become.
There's also an article called: "Jaron Lanier: The Internet destroyed the middle class"
And from his book: "Who Owns the Future" he says:
“Saving the Winners from Themselves: Is the present trend really a benefit for those who run the top servers that have come to organize the world? In the short term, of course, yes. The greatest fortunes in history have been created recently by using network technology as a way to concentrate information and therefore wealth and power. However, in the long term, this way of using network technology is not even good for the richest and most powerful players, because their ultimate source of wealth can only be a growing economy...”
“...I’m no Marxist. I love competing in the market, and the last thing I’d want is to live under communism. My wife grew up with it in Minsk, Belarus, and I am absolutely, thoroughly convinced of the misery. But if you select the right passages, Marx can read as being incredibly current...”
“...One reason companies like Facebook should be interested in what I am proposing is that planning a regulation regime is better than morphing involuntarily into a dull regulated utility, which is what would probably happen otherwise. Suppose Facebook never gets good enough at snatching the “advertising” business from Google. That’s still a possibility as I write this. In that event, Facebook could go into decline, which would present a global emergency...”
“...Imagine a future industry of “decision reduction” that would be (gasp!) regulated so as to remain unaligned with other services. You’d choose a decision reduction service the way you choose a broker now. The decision reduction service would use its particular style and competence to create bundles of decisions you could accept or reject en masse. You could switch to other services without penalty at any time. Such services would be prohibited from having conflicts of interest. That is a proper place for regulation...”
“...Making information free is survivable so long as only limited numbers of people are disenfranchised. As much as it pains me to say so, we can survive if we only destroy the middle classes of musicians, journalists, and photographers. What is not survivable is the additional destruction of the middle classes in transportation, manufacturing, energy, office work, education, and health care. And all that destruction will come surely enough if the dominant idea of an information economy isn’t improved...”
He just seems so out of touch! I wonder why he is held up by TED and others as THE guy to follow when you're deleting your accounts for following people :)
I haven’t been on FB, Insta, Twitter in years, or Reddit in months and I don’t even think about those things anymore.
But I guess he could just hang around people who are still deep into social media.
The terms used to talk about those things today might have their origins on social media, but the issues existed before someone coined a term. You might want to re-evaluate your associations if no one talks about sexual assault and harassment or the over-policing of black people.
Why? I’ve never been happier.
That's where I stopped reading. How silly to think either of those two terrible outcomes would ever come to fruition.
Why anyone is still listening to him is beyond me.